Danna R Messer has written a fascinating and valuable book on an often-forgotten Medieval woman. Joan was the wife of Llewelyn the Great, King of Gwynedd who eventually extended his authority over much of Wales.
Joan emerges as a woman of great strength of will and also great authority.

The author challenges a lot of the preconceptions about female roles and power in this time period through her examination of Joan's life and career. It was not simply Welsh customs which allowed her to wield great power (although that helped) but custom and necessity.

King John's illegitimate daughter by an unknown French woman ended up becoming one of the most influential royal consorts in Welsh history. She maintained contact with her family, most notably her half-brother Henry III but did not put English affairs before those of the country she married into. Even the rumours of an affair with her husband's most erstwhile enemy did not destroy her reputation. (If it indeed happened).

Nobles of later centuries including the scions of the houses of York and Lancaster would claim to be descended from Joan through her daughters who married into prominent families. Later rulers would perhaps be her greatest legacy, well that and being married to one of the greatest rulers of Wales.

Messer's study is an important contribution to the study of women's history, and the history of royal British women. I shall certainly be purchasing it at some point.

Thanks to Pen and Sword for approving my request for this title. This did not influence my review and all opinions expressed are my own.

I had never before heard about King John’s daughter, so I was interested to learn about Joan and learn more about Welsh history. However, I found it hard to follow. The author went on many tangents that did not relate to Joan’s life. Also, very little is actually about Joan herself. It focused mostly on the customs of royalty and the nobility. Still, this was an excellent introduction to a largely forgotten woman.

What an incredible biography! Ever time I picked up “Joan, Lady of Wales”, I learned more about Joan of England, and her life and times as well.

Ms. Messer truly knows how to bring history to life right before the reader’s eyes! Though there are not a lot of primary sources surrounding Joan’s life, Ms. Messer brilliantly weaves together information from the sources that are available with other aspects of her meticulous research (I can only imagine the amount of time she spent researching, as her passion for what she is writing is so clear). She also seamlessly blends all of this with Welsh politics, history, and history of women during the Medieval Era as well.

Joan, or Siwan, was the illegitimate daughter of King John. She later married Llywelyn the Great of Gwynedd, and was at the heart of many events throughout history. She often tried to keep peace between England and Wales, and was at the heart of many court intrigue and politics. She was such a strong woman…and I will simply say…this biography is a must-read!

If you enjoy Medieval History, I highly recommend this biography! Thank you so much to author Danna R. Messer for writing such a through and well-research biography. I learned so much while reading this book, and so look forward to learning even more about Joan and Wales as well.

Thank you so much to Pen & Sword History for the review copy of this biography, it is amazing! All opinions expressed in this review are my own.

I appreciate the publisher allowing me to read this book. I thoroughly enjoyed this book about Joan lady of Wales and can't wait to read more about her.

Every bit as fun as a soap opera! I love reading about strong women that pull the strings behind the scenes of thrones and great men. Great story.

I enjoyed this book very much, the book subject Joan, Lady of Wales is a fascinating character and the authors enthusiasm for their subject shines through. It suffers somewhat form the scarcity of evidence that plagues all medieval books on women but the author does a masterful job of putting Joann in the context of the times she lived. An excellent biography.

Before reading this book, I didn't know anything about medieval Welsh history or culture. So as a complete beginner, I can definitely say that this book is an intriguing and enjoyable biography that motivated me to read more about this time period in general.

Joan was a fascinating woman, even though not much is known about her. Despite the lack of information the author tried to tell a compelling story. All the background information about the time period and people involved in Joan's live sets the scene and really help to understand her personality and choices.

I can recommend this book to anybody interested in medieval history, especially the lives of medieval women.

Good for those who like, have an interest in or studying women's history and royalty. From 1211 on. A decent biography of her - life, marriage, war and more.

I thoroughly enjoyed this book - Joan, Lady of Wales. Joan is a fascinating and inspiring character and affords us a different perspective from which to view the medieval world.

The author’s enthusiasm and obvious admiration for the central figure in this book shines through and perhaps enables the reader to look more forgivingly at some of the more speculative aspects of this narrative.

Where this book is at its most compelling and authoritative is when discussing the social, economic and political environment in which women like Joan found themselves. As such, it is a good introduction and I found myself motivated to explore more of this time period in Welsh/British history.

This was an interesting book about Joan, Lady of Wales. I certainly enjoyed this book and I learned quite a lot about Medieval Welsh culture and politics. I read a lot about English history, but this was my first book specifically about Wales and it definitely makes me want to read more!

The issue with writing a book about Joan is that there are so few sources that mention her. Only a couple in fact. And several of the sources that we have were written centuries later. Messer does do a good job of explaining this hinderance and does discuss the bias/shortcomings of the sources used. Most of the narrative about Joan is based on extrapolating evidence from the lives of those around her. At times Messer takes her extrapolations too far though. Even when we have zero evidence of Joan’s hand in something, Messer still credits Joan with accomplishing that outcome.

As mentioned, this book mostly focuses on those in Joan’s orbit, intending to use them as examples or to fill in the gaps of Joan’s life. But because the focus is often on someone else, I don’t feel like I got a good sense of who Joan was. But I do have a good idea of what a royal Medieval Welsh woman could have been. All in all, this was an interesting read and I learned a lot. I will definitely be coming back to this time period and learning more.

- I received an eArc from NetGalley in exchange for an honest review -

Interesting book on Joan of Wales.
Not much known about her, but some interesting facts about whether she was
King John's daughter or not.
I picked it to read because of my Welsh heritage.

There is an unspoken assumption in much medieval scholarship, that women were helpless damsels under the watchful care of fathers or brothers. The ability of medieval women to take independent action or speak out was restricted by the stage of their “life cycle.” Aristocratic maidens and widows had more autonomy than wives and mothers did. Sadly, history is told by those in power and the actual role of medieval women is rarely portrayed. Partially that is due to their invisibility and scant primary source materials referencing them. But more often it reflects gender bias found in scholarship. Fortunately, female scholars are beginning to explore the role of women in medieval history and determine how gender impacts the way these figures are seen.

Danna Messer addresses all these issues in her book, Joan of Wales; Power & Politics of King John’s Daughter. Joan was the illegitimate daughter of King John of England (c. 1167-1216). She was given in marriage to Llywelyn ap Iorwerth (prince of North Wales) to broker a peace between the two lands. Yet Messer’s gives a compelling argument that Joan was far more than an aristocratic consort. She took on the traditional role as Llywelyn’s wife (through hospitality and gift-giving) while also holding significant political responsibilities. Joan did all that and more as she served as a political diplomat, emissary, and counselor during the reigns of both King John and Henry III, her half-brother

The book asks the question “what if”? The questions are answered with a mixture of primary sources and conjecture. Together they provide us a glimpse of how history may have been and the role of medieval aristocratic/royal women in society and politics. It is an exploration that is long overdue.

Joan/Joanna of Wales was the first historical figure I ever became fascinated with, after many years ago reading Sharon Penman’s Here Be Dragons, about Joanna and Llewelyn Fawr, the Prince of Gwynedd. Very few facts are known about Joan; she was an illegitimate daughter of King John, she married Llewelyn and bore his children, and she interceded between her warring husband and father on more than one occasion to try and broker peace. But the documentation of all this is thin indeed; of Llewelyn’s (at least 6) daughters, only one, Elen, is definitively documented to be Joan’s daughter.

Therefore, an awful lot of Joan’s life must be determined by logical supposition. Would an illegitimate daughter of Llewelyn have been considered of value enough as an alliance prospect to marry a man like Reginald de Braose? Would that daughter, not by Joan, have named one of her own children John, and another Joan? Screamingly unlikely, and therefore Messer concludes, as have others, that Gwladys Ddu was Llewelyn and Joanna’s legitimate daughter, and so almost certainly was Marared, definitely Elen, very probably Gwenllian and indeed the mysterious Susanna, mentioned exactly once in any history when she was given over to the custody of the English king as a hostage.

The problem with writing a biography of a woman who lived 800 years ago and of whose life so little documentation exists is that a great deal of the above sort of logical extrapolation has to be applied to make it more than a bare recitation of a very few dates and events. The author does a good job of this, examining the changes in Welsh conventions and law during the period of Joanna and Llewelyn’s reign. It is documented fact that the pair gained in status during the period, evidenced by their changes in titles at the least, but also their power and influence. It is quite literally inconceivable that a queen (for that is what Joan was) did not significantly influence the customs and habits of her court and her country over three decades of ruling, especially with her husband frequently away making war.

Joan’s contribution to diplomatic relations between Wales and England is also delved into, and here is where I think the author deviated from logical extrapolation into supposition a bit too much. There are several documented instances of Joanna interceding first with her father John and later her brother Henry on Llewelyn’s behalf, but there are many occasions when negotiations and meetings occurred and Joanna isn’t mentioned at all. Considering that Joanna had at least four and possibly as many as six children who survived to adulthood (and there would very likely have been more who did not, considering the medieval mortality rate for children) I for one just do not buy that she was constantly traipsing back and forth across the difficult terrain of North Wales to Shrewsbury, Chester or Worcester. (For context, I grew up just outside Denbigh. I know that country. I definitely wouldn’t have wanted to be riding a horse across it while pregnant or soon after giving birth). The author on several occasions makes remarks to the effect that Joanna isn’t mentioned ‘but could very well have been present’ at specific negotiations and, for me, this is just unnecessary conjecture.

In the book’s final chapter, the author notes that the purpose of this book is to encourage greater thought on the impact women such as Joan had on history, and it is beyond doubt that Joan’s impact was long-lasting, even if largely undocumented. The Welsh court was a very different place after Joan of England’s reign, and there can be no question that during her lifetime her efforts decreased tensions and averted battles on several occasions. If you accept (as most historians and genealogists now do) that Gwladys Ddu was indeed her daughter, Joan’s descendants are sitting on the throne of England (and therefore, Wales) today, a fact I think Joan herself would be most pleased by.

I’ll give this four stars, for a soundly researched and thought-provoking biography of a fascinating medieval queen. It’s easy to read and not at all dry, but the author does at times go a little too far for my liking with conjecture and supposition that’s unnecessary.

I enjoyed this book, and although it's true that the historical record is scarce when it comes to Joan - and other Medieval women - I feel as if the author still presented the best possible story of her life that we have available to us. The sources are examined and interpreted and I was grateful for the author's expertise on this, to help place them in context and alongside other influential people of Joan's time. The book goes into forbidden love affairs, grisly executions, powerful family dynamics and the- at times - tense politics between Wales and England. I've learned a lot about the Welsh kingdoms in the Medieval period and what was expected of Joan in her duties. A good read for anyone interested in Medieval history, King John, the history of women or Welsh Medieval history.

Joan was the illegitimate daughter of King John of England although she was later legitimised. She was married to Llywelyn the Great, a Prince of Wales and although I was not previously aware of her, I do have an interest in the Plantagenets so this book appealed to me in an effort to broaden my knowledge of the earlier Plantagenets.

Unfortunately, there are very few sources related to Lady Joan so the author has had to make educated guesses based on events and actions of others.

Joan was daughter and sister to Kings and must have often felt her loyalties torn as she struggled to hold the peace between England and her marital home of Wales.

Messer begins by explaining the background of Joan's life,  who her parents were, interestingly the identity of her mother cannot be certified.  Messer also discusses the role of noble women at the time and other noble females and referred to throughout.

Although there are few sources directly regarding Joan the author has brought a previously unknown Joan to life through other events and sources referring to alternative individuals.

One part of Joan’s life I wasn't expecting to read about was an alleged affair with William de Braose which unfortunately led to Joan's imprisonment and much more dire consequences for William. I would have loved to have known more about this as due to a lack of sources Messer has had to make assumptions and guesses and whilst these provide very interesting reading it's a shame we don't have more evidence.

I really enjoyed this and would recommend to all who have an interest in the history of noble women, not just Joan as this book includes others!

Joan of Wales by Danna R Messer is not a casual read. The paucity of names used by families in medieval times means there are several Eleanors, multiple Llewelyns and goodness knows how many Williams mentioned in this book. The ancient Welsh custom of conjoining people’s names with their fathers’, e.g. Llewelyn ap Iorwerth (Llewelyn, son of Iorwerth / Edward), means that the same names pop up on the page even more often! Dr Messner often cites an earlier or later example when making a point and I had to remind myself how that individual related to Joan’s story.

Joan (c. 1191 – 1237, although Messner suggests an earlier birthdate of 1185-89) was King John’s illegitimate daughter and the wife of Llewelyn the Great of Wales. Messner discusses candidates for the role of Joan’s mother, favouring Clemence de Fougeres. Clemence married Ranulph, Earl of Chester, whose nephew married Joan and Llewelyn’s daughter. Cor, isn’t it all involuted?!

That involution was partly a function of the political machinations of the time. Intermarriages between noble families were an attempt to lessen the chances of inter-clan warfare and to boost the position of one’s heirs. Sadly, as many examples in this book show, even sons and fathers would turn against each other, never mind sons-in-law.

I learnt a lot from this book. Firstly, that nunneries often taught girls how to read and/or write Latin, as well as lessons in medicine, astronomy, mathematics and law. Messner points out that convents were great landowners and an abbess could be an excellent role model for a young woman needing to understand how to exercise her agency. Secondly, that Llewelyn (probably under Joan’s influence) put Wales on the European stage, e.g. by adopting the practice of primogeniture and thus stressing the importance of legitimacy in succession. Messner suggests that Llewelyn’s biggest change was the move towards a more centralised bureaucracy of his own government. Thirdly, that Joan’s son-in-law, Walter de Clifford, was alleged to have made a royal envoy eat a king’s writ, including its wax seal! How rude!

I recognise the absence of primary source material and I acknowledge that Messner has spent twenty years (so far) researching that material. She must be regarded as an authority upon the topic. However, that lack of hard evidence and Messner’s rigorous honesty results in 200+ occurrences of “probably”, “possibly”, “likely” and “surely”. There’s no avoiding that problem but it does result in a nebulous and frustrating narrative. Messner states that her “…intention has been to get readers to think more about the possibilities of Joan’s political role”. We can do that as well as she can, but it is still speculation.

There are two aspects to the book: one is the partially conjectural narrative of Joan’s life. The other is the broader discussion of the agency of royal Welsh women in the medieval period. The last chapter, especially, is excellent in that respect. I would have liked to see the discussion extended: how did the status of Joan and her step-daughter in law, Senana, compare with the status and authority of (a) English and Scottish queens and (b) the wives of high-status English lords? Messner returns to that broader discussion on several occasions which perhaps results in some repetition. I wonder whether the book would work better if it had been divided into two sections: a (relatively short) history of Joan’s life and the probability of where she went and what she did; then a longer section exploring the various aspects of female agency.

One aspect of Messner’s phrasing really puzzled me. She persistently talks of “native Wales”. In fact, the word “native” occurs 82 times in the book. Why native? I don’t recall any instances of “native England”. It turns out that it’s a handy way of referring to the geographic area west of England. In medieval times, Wales (as a nation) didn’t exist. It was a collection of kingdoms and Marcher lordships, some of which were ruled by Welshmen and some by Anglo-Normans. The term “native Wales” lets us refer to those units as a group who had a common shared heritage and culture.

There are quite a few typos in the Advanced Reading Copy that I received from Pen & Sword but these should have disappeared from the final published version. I’m sure that Messner meant that John de Braose saved the de Braose dynasty from virtual extinction, rather than virtual distinction; and that she meant “eminent” and “rein in” rather than “imminent” and “reign in”!

#JoanLadyofWales #NetGalley

Medieval women held many different titles that defined their roles and their connections. Mothers, daughters, and wives tended to be the most popular and the most common. Titles such as queen, political diplomat, and peace weaver tend to be rare and given to women of power. Yet, these words accurately depict a unique woman who lived during the Angevin/ Plantagenet dynasty. She was the illegitimate daughter of the notorious King John and the wife of Llywelyn the Great, a Prince of Wales. She worked tirelessly to establish peace between England and Wales, yet she has not received much attention in the past. Her name was Joan, Lady of Wales, and her story is brought to life in Danna R. Messer’s book, “Joan, Lady of Wales: Power and Politics of King John’s Daughter”.

I would like to thank Pen and Sword Books and Net Galley for sending me a copy of this book. I did not know much about Joan, except what I read about her in Sharon Bennett Connolly’s latest book, “Ladies of Magna Carta: Women of Influence in Thirteenth-Century England”. She sounded really interesting so when I heard about this book by Messer, I wanted to read it to learn more about Joan.

As someone who did not know a lot about Joan or medieval Wales, I found this book informative and enjoyable. Messer takes the time to explain what life was like for a royal Welsh couple, like Joan and Llywelyn, and why their marriage made such an impact in the long run. On paper, it was a princess from England marrying a prince from Wales, but what made this union so unique was the fact that Joan was the illegitimate daughter of King John and yet she was treated like a beloved legitimate child. Of course, this marriage was first and foremost, a political match, but it seemed to have developed into a strong and loving partnership, that endured 30 years of trials and tribulations.

One of the major trials that Joan had to deal with was to prevent England and Wales from going to war against each other. Truly a monumental challenge for, as Messer meticulously points out, Llywelyn and either King John or King Henry III were constantly having disagreements. I could just picture Joan getting exasperated that she had to try to calm things down between England and Wales every single time. Her diplomatic skills were truly remarkable, especially with how much influence she possessed in both countries.

Probably the most controversial event in Joan’s life is her affair with William de Braose, which led to his execution and her imprisonment. Messer does a good job explaining what we know about this situation. Unfortunately, like many events in Joan’s life, Messer has to use a bit of guesswork to try and put together the clues about Joan and figure out what happened. It can be a bit frustrating, but we have to remember that Joan lived over 800 years ago and women were not recorded as detailed as they are now or even 500 years ago. I think we can give Messer a pass on guessing where Joan was and what her role was in certain events.

Overall, I found this book enlightening. I think Messer’s writing style is engaging and she was dedicated to finding out the truth, as far as the facts would take her. I think this is a fantastic book for someone who needs an introduction to medieval Welsh royal lifestyle, the power of royal Welsh women, and of course, a meticulously detailed account of the life of Joan, Lady of Wales. If this describes you, check out “Joan, Lady of Wales: Power and Politics of King John’s Daughter” by Danna R. Messer.

I received Joan, Lady of Wales as part of a NetGalley giveaway.

Joan was the illegitimate daughter of the infamous King John of England and an unknown mother and the wife of Llewelyn the Great of Wales. A skilled diplomat and apparently beloved figure (as queen, mother, wife, and daughter) whose reputation was called into question following a (probable) affair with her husband's rival, she's a fascinating figure of female agency in the Middle Ages.

This was a hit or miss read for me. While reading it, it was relatively easy to get through, but it was very hard to pick it back up in the first place. While I appreciate the paucity of sources for any medieval subject, especially a woman, I felt like I didn't really get a sense of Joan herself, but rather was told about everyone in her orbit. For instance, there was an extended riff about her stepdaughter-in-law that seem to meaningfully relate to Joan in any way. It was like trying to depict Joan by the negative space created by everyone around her. As interesting as I think Joan was, I didn't really get a sense of her in this narrative, though again, I understand that it's hard when there's just so little about her out there.

Thank you for the opportunity to read this ARC in exchange for an honest review.

I was glad to see a book about Welsh history available on Netgalley. As the description suggests, the history of the women in medieval Wales (before 1282) is largely mysterious. I found this book to be well-researched and informative, especially considering the fact. There is a lot lost in time and lack of documentation + clear sources. I respect the difficulty this poses for someone looking to write an accurate account. Therefore, I give this book 3.5/4 stars for achieving a difficult challenge with well-written accounts, interesting points and aims, and filling a gap in the literature. I would buy this and go through it a second time. I approached this knowing close to little about the figure, but I have a strong interest in the area. So, I would find a second read even more informative. Once again, I am glad that more books about Wales are being accessible for US readers. Thank you for the chance to read this!

This was a difficult review for me not due to the content but how to formulate my many and varied thoughts on this book as they are at odds with each other.

On the one hand, this is a detailed study on the role of royal / noble women of the Welsh ruling houses (the titles are interchangeable) during the late 12th and early 13th centuries. To illustrate her points, the author's chosen subject is Joan, daughter of John of England, one of the predominant women at this time. Messer provides us with a well researched and thought out argument for her choice of Joan's mother, which she utilises throughout the narrative.

A number of chapters cross over with each other as certain themes are discussed, and at times we jump forward and backwards in the timeline so that there is no strict chronological order to things. A number of other notable women are also used to provide examples of their influence in the areas of hospitality, patronage, marriage, and some times, in the changing of prevailing attitudes and customs - most of these women have some connection of Joan.

What I am at odds with is the documentation used to support the theory that Joan played a dominant political role in Wales at this period. Messer acknowledges that ".. invisibility in sources doesn't naturally preclude invisibility in life ..". It also doesn't preclude an active political role. There is quite a bit of "it is likely" and "it is possible"and to conclude that Joan may have been one of the "unnamed" persons who may or may not have been awarded safe conduct to attend meetings without factual evidence does not make it fact. Alternatively, to assume that the granting of land and property to Joan and Llwellyn is payment for Joan's role as political negotiator or "peace weaver" would be to make fact out of supposition and assumptions, and to insert her into the narrative that may not be hers to own, and ponder the possibilities.

I have no doubt that Joan may have played an important political role as wife of the reigning prince, however, I would like to have seen some more supporting documentation from the multiple sources used - an image of a document, a translation of a text, a pipe role entry. To tell us that "... simply because details are non-existent does not mean .. Joan did not parley behind the scenes as she was so wont to do on many occasions ..". That is a rather bland and empty statement to put forth as a solidly researched argument.

In fact, as Messer admits, there is only one case that we actually know that Joan had a hand in it - the rest remains a matter of "contextualisation". And so Joan, like many women of her era are left to ".. languish in the shadows of the feats, tragedies and majesties of the powerful men .." in their lives, and that Joan's life has and will remain a mystery.

Look, this is a decent work on the role of women in Wales - maybe that should have been the focus, using what is known of Joan and the many other notable women, to provide a discussion on the different areas where women did have a documented involvement in society and politics.

Recommended for those with an interest in Wales, medieval history and politics, and notable women.